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 designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:42 AM |
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Aussie Bug in UK
Hi, My daughter's going to see a Beetle on Saturday with a view to buying it. It's in excellent condition but
we're having problems trying to work out how old it is. It was imported to the UK from Australia in 1971 but is obviously older. I've looked at the
online history of the Beetle in Australia and worked out that it would have been built before 1964 because of the shape of the number plate light,
narrow side windows etc, but when I did an insurance quote the car showed up as being a 1969 1300 Auto. I believe that all Automatics were imported
whole and not built in Australia so, if this is true, the car should have different headlights, boot, desk lid, windscreen and side windows. I'm at a
loss and would like to have at least a rough idea of the age of the car before my daughter hands over her money. Can anyone help please?
Thanks, Clive
 
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Joel
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 10:23 AM |
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If you can give us the first 3 digits of the vin we can soon tell you what it is
Bugs built here between 65 and 67 still had the small windows and also had Aus only chassis numbers which seems to confuse alot of people
its got the popes nose decklid but later front gaurds with the wider front indicators and no running board pressings, no wolfsburg crest and looks
like it once had the earlier visors so I'd say its 64-66 but parts are so easy swapped especially after nearly 50 years
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 10:34 AM |
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Thanks for that, much appreciated. I'll ask the owner for the three digits when I speak to him on Wednesday. In the meantime, do you think it's
fairly safe to assume the car was built before 1969? Another thing that's thrown me is that the wipers park to the right which I believe is pre 1968.
I know that the car's been restored at some point so that might account for the wider front guards. It's all very confusing!
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Sides
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 10:40 AM |
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Yeah, basically as Joel has said... get the first 3 digits of chassis number and we can be definite as to what year it is.
From the pics it's DEFINITELY pre 68.... at a guess I'd say 65, but it's mainly the deck lid that's making me think that way.
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 10:42 AM |
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Thanks for the quick replies, they're very helpful. I'll post the three digits as soon as I get them.
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bajachris88
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 11:30 AM |
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If it was a stock aussie 69' stickshift... it would have a 1500sp engine, rear diagonal trailing arm suspension (as opposed to earlier swing axle)
and ball joint front end (as opposed to king and link).
Aussie's never got a 1300 auto in 1969. only 1500. and a 69' 1500 semi auto does not have a swan neck mirror like that, nor the early style guards,
towel rail bumpers (like said, panels can be swapped though). if its a 1500 1969 australian model, it will have front windscreen demisters on the
inside too on the dash, will have front disk brakes (if stickshift auto) and will have 4 stud wheels.
again though, the fella could have redrilled hubs or drums to be 5 stud, and if was really keen on that early look, filled in or grafted over the
interior demister vents in the dash. But thats just a few things to keep an eye out for.
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matberry
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 11:37 AM |
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That number plate light finished in '62, the body and guards finished in '67 in Oz. Maybe a later pan (chassis) as it has small 5 stud wheels which
are a modification but often based on a ball joint/disc setup (68> .
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empi
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 06:47 PM |
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Sound like a Sport-o-matic box and pan (68-70) and an early body, see if u can find the body number behind the spare wheel, and a pic of the dash
(grab handle or not) there will be other tell tail signs such as many components on the beetle will have a VW symbol and two Kangaroos on either
side.
Good luck.
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VDU.88A
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 08:13 PM |
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Its essy to tell how old it is its HERBIE so its a 63 model 
PAST 71 S BUG 72 S BUG 76 L BUG 71 J&S BUGGY
72 J&S BUGGY
PRESENT 54 OVAL 56 OVAL 64 BEETLE 66 BEETLE
67 Delux Beetle 69 BUG 67 SPLITY PANEL
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 Bizarre
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 08:44 PM |
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Looks like it has cookie cutters or fuchs on it??
They never said it was an auto (semi)
My 2c is it is a converted 69 pan - probably a manual, IRS and discs with early body
Scilicet putas te currum reficere posse - stipes es!!!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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matberry
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:05 PM |
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Yep, second look reveals ...definately Fuchs
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VDU.88A
Its essy to tell how old it is its HERBIE so its a 63 model
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Now why didn't I think of that???
I'm really pleased with the help given here guys, it's really appreciated. I'll get the VIN and body numbers on Wednesday and see where we go from
there. The car's too far away to view in a day which is why we can't go before the weekend. The seller owns a restoration business specializing in
VW's and this is his own car so I guess it's possible anything could have been done, but I'm hoping it's not an older body on a newer chassis as
that would take the shine off it somehow. Having said that, being his own car I should imagine everything would have been done properly. The car's
been fitted with a 1600cc engine which I'm happy about. I find it hard to believe that it's a 1969 model imported in 1971 because I don't see the
point of importing a two year old car as it would have been cheaper to have bought one over here.
My daughter's really keen as she's always wanted an air-cooled bug and the condition of this one from the seller sounds perfect for what she wants.
She drives a new Beetle as an everyday car so the Bug would be pampered and kept for sunny drives. She's looking at making the Bug a keeper so I want
ensure (as much as I can) that she has a genuine car (I don't mind alterations like engine, seats, wheels etc) but I'm not sure if a complete body
swop would be a wise buy. I don't know if that would affect resale value but I don't want her to buy a car that might be difficult to sell later on
if her circumstances change. Yes, the wheels are genuine Fuschs (although not original to the car).
Here's a pic of the dash:
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Joel
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:18 PM |
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the body is definatley before 67 and I very much doubt its sitting on a later floor pan seeing as it has early pedals, gearstick, handbrake and cant
quite see but i bet its got the heater knob next to the gearstick which will confirm its a 6 volt pan
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:23 PM |
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I'm bowled over by your knowledge guys - and thankful for it!
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Bizarre
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:25 PM |
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The guessing game continues 
look like stock high back VW seats (post 68??)
Can you put those on early pre 67 tracks??
Scilicet putas te currum reficere posse - stipes es!!!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by designergraphics
I'm bowled over by your knowledge guys - and thankful for it!
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meh........... just sad buggers 
Scilicet putas te currum reficere posse - stipes es!!!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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empi
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:27 PM |
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Body is definitly between 62.5 and 67, 68 is a different shape alltogether (windows, guards, both valences F&R and dash) it also looks like the
FUCH's are 16's
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
| Quote: | Originally
posted by designergraphics
I'm bowled over by your knowledge guys - and thankful for it!
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meh........... just sad buggers
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I keep Koi Carp and believe me, you won't meet anyone more anal
retentive than a Koi keeper. Body shape, colour, pattern - I could go on forever!
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
The guessing game continues
look like stock high back VW seats (post 68??)
Can you put those on early pre 67 tracks??
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Yes, they're high back seats. Would be interested to know if they can be fitted to early tracks. Car's also fitted with seat belts front and
rear.
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Smiley
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| posted on July 20th, 2010 at 09:49 PM |
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Definitely not a semi-auto either.
Because it has a clutch pedal and a normal gearstick.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on July 21st, 2010 at 09:37 AM |
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I'd love to look at this car in person as it's a real 'bitza' - bitza this and bitza that.
I agree with Joel about the floorpan, it's definitely a 6-volt one (ie. 1967 and earlier for Australian-made Beetles). Early gearstick, handbrake
and pedals, no heater levers. We'll have to wait unitl we know what the chassis number is before we can pin it down exactly. Don't forget that the
first 3 digits only tell you the year model after 1965, so we'd need to know the whole character string to be sure.
As for the body, Aussie Beetles used the same body shell stampings from 1958 to early 1968 (whereas Euro Beetles got bigger windows in 1965). So this
one is 1967 or earlier straight away, just from the window shapes. Mudguards and bonnets only tell the story if they are original - and after 45+
years, who knows. But yes as Joel has said, this one has a 1963 and earlier engine lid, and 1964-67 front bonnet and mudguards. From the dash, I
noticed that the front bonnet pull is on the right-hand side - that was one of the first things the Australian factory changed, from 1961-on I think.
Also the door and side trims are all one colour - this was a feature of the Aussie '67s. Of course they may not be original - a previous owner might
have fitted '68 and later black trim along with the high-back seats. One other thing - it looks like the fuel gauge is electric (Australian) as the
level is reading left off the scale with the ignition off. Euro Beetle fuel gauges of this vintage were mechanical and read the level all the time,
ignition off or on.
Here's some things to check, or ask the owner to look at:
* What is the small manufacturer's stamp on each of the windows? Hopefully they are the original ones and will tell whether they are Australian or
not
* Take out the spare tyre and look at the manufacturers plate rivited to the body just below the washer bottle. Does it say Volkswagen Australasia?
Does the chassis number here match the real chassis number, stamped on the tunnel underneath the back seat?
* Is there a date stamp pressed into the spare wheel centre, in between the wheel bolt holes? You might also see the VW Australasia logo, featuring
two kangaroos
* Is there a date stamp on the back of the speedo (open the bonnet and remove the cardboard wiring cover to see). If so what is it?
* You might also see date stamps on the underside of the chrome front blinker covers - unscrew and remove to see. But chances are they won't be
original after all these years.
The high-back seats are interesting. These weren't fitted to Aussie Beetles until the CKD-assembled big window 12V 1968 model onwards, and they
don't fit 6-volt runners unless the 6-volt bottoms are welded to the seat frames. I'd also like to know what was done to fit those wheels to 6-volt
drums - possibly adaptors as they seem to widen the track a bit.
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annosL
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| posted on July 21st, 2010 at 11:51 AM |
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Door handles and window winder shown is also pre-68
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Joel
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| posted on July 21st, 2010 at 12:51 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
The high-back seats are interesting. These weren't fitted to Aussie Beetles until the CKD-assembled big window 12V 1968 model onwards, and they
don't fit 6-volt runners unless the 6-volt bottoms are welded to the seat frames. I'd also like to know what was done to fit those wheels to 6-volt
drums - possibly adaptors as they seem to widen the track a bit.
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The 72-74 T-rail highbacks will slide onto the pre 70 L-rails
I've done that one before but its not a safe install, gives a granny rocking chair type experience
infact a mates 70 bug has just been busted for that exact thing so if anyone around here has some low back seats give me or adam a yell
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 21st, 2010 at 07:56 PM |
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That's something well worth looking at Joel. I'll make sure the runners have been welded as has been mentioned, if not I'll ensure it's done or
I'll change the seats. I don't want the car to stop but my daughter continue going!
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designergraphics
Casual Dubber
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| posted on July 21st, 2010 at 08:06 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
I'd love to look at this car in person as it's a real 'bitza' - bitza this and bitza that.
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I'd love that too - can you meet on the Isle of Wight in the UK at 10.0am on Saturday morning? 
Thanks for the detailed list of where to find everything, makes things much easier. I passed the list on to the owner this morning and he said he'll
get back to me later with all the info. I'll post it here as soon as he does. Can't wait to find out exactly what it is!
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 04:48 AM |
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Just phoned the owner again - I won't be getting the numbers until tomorrow morning now so the waiting continues. Arrggh!
He did assure me that the chassis isn't a '69 though so that's good news.
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designergraphics
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 07:57 PM |
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Some good news and some bad ....
Heard back from the seller this morning and he's given me the chassis number which is: 113080221
Unfortunately the plate behind the spare wheel is missing, just a rusty square.
Also, there's no kangaroos on the glass, just a 'VWA' stamp.
He still has the original wheels that came with the car when he bought it and they're stamped 5-65, but the spare wheel is stamped either ROKVW91 or
ROKVW16, he wasn't sure.
He also said that the front indicators were put on a later date because they're a little bit off-centre. Of course, I suppose this could just be
because new wings might have been fitted.
I hope someone can identify the chassis number. Not only would it be nice to give the car it's 'identity', but I'm trying to get insurance cover
and everyone wants to know the year of manufacture before they'll quote.
Just one other thing; It's been mentioned that '63 wings and bonnets are different to '64 and later. I've looked hard at photos of both but just
can't see it. Can someone explain please?
Thanks again, Clive
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empi
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 11:00 PM |
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july - aug 64
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empi
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 11:04 PM |
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Also look at the speedo just under the indicator light and above the branding VDO see if "Australia" is written.
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1303Steve
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 11:05 PM |
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Hi
The indicators on earlier bugs were skinny and sat forward on the wing/fender/mudguard/guard. In 64 I think they went to wider one which was used on
12 volts bugs as well, the indicator body was moved slightly backwards on the wing/fender/mudguard/guard.
Steve
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